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"I’m
not averse to doing anything as
long as it’s not at cross purposes with 
my values and I can make time for it"
A lot of people today watch TV and rather than threaten
them it would be wiser to cajole them to break new grounds
Shabana
Azmi is an enigma. You can never predict which way she’ll
turn. After thumbing down big bucks and big shows like Sawaal
Dus Crore Ka she’s surprised everyone by signing up for
a small soap on B4U TV. Anupamaa being produced by Himesh
Reshammiya and directed by Arun Frank, is about a simple,
middle-class housewife who after her husband’s untimely
demise is forced to step out of the safe haven of her home
and take over the family
business which she does with astonishing success. This character
seems a far cry from the Brahmin widow of the controversial
Water but one can be sure that Shabana will invest even the
staider-than-thou Anupama with a certain daring defiance that
will make her very different from the other “Woman of
Substance” stereotypes flooding the small screen. Taking
time off from her busy schedule, the always-in-the-news MP
talks about her latest
“surprise” and other issues close to her heart.
For
the last five years you have been wooed by just about every
TV channel and producer. What was it about Anupamaa that appealed
to you and changed your mind about doing television?
This summer I did a play called Waiting Room produced by the
Royal National Theatre of London. For two months I was away
from the country. The play got very good reviews and I really
enjoyed the experience. I realised that I had reached a stage
when I was willing to experiment with different mediums. Himesh
had been approaching me for the last year and a half. We had
worked on several ideas but none of them had the inherent
ability to grip me. After returning from London I told Himesh
that I wanted to do something on TV. If it was TV it had to
be the family drama format, he insisted. When he came to me
with the draft of the first episode of Anupamaa I knew that
this was something I would want to do.
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| Anupama seeks
to create an atmosphere of familiarity, then invites the
wife to come forward and negotiate more space for herself |
Why? What makes Anupamaa so special?
I guess she appealed because though she was coached in the
familiar image of a dutiful daughter-in-law from a typical
upper middle-class Indian family, she was a woman who was
concerned not just with responsibilities but rights too. And
yet, unlike some of the other women I have seen on TV, she
did not come across as too aggressive so there was no fear
of her alienating the average housewife. To our largely middle-class
audience she will appear as a non-threatening person, someone
they can identify with. Anupama first seeks to create an atmosphere
of familiarity within which she then invites the wife-next-door
to come forward and negotiate more space for herself. The
promos seek to emphasise this when they say: Anupamaa sirf
kartavya nahin adhikaar bhi hai, sirf bhavana nahin vichaar
bhi hai, woh aaj ki bharatiya naari hai.
On what grounds would you call a seemingly traditional Indian
housewife “aaj ki bharatiya naari”?
If you look at Hindi cinema today you will find that it is
catering to a primarily NRI audience. The appearance is very
westernised and modern but the values the films uphold are
the traditional values of patriarchy. Anupamaa seeks to do
the exact opposite. Anupamaa may be conventional in her look
but the values she talks about whether it is the rights of
factory workers or women, are contemporary. And that, I think,
is the right path to tread because a lot of people today watch
TV and rather than threaten them it would be wiser to cajole
them to break new grounds. I’m not saying that Anupamaa
is a very different serial but the gaze is very feminine and
that is very important. In Hindi cinema the gaze has been
predominantly male and that has to change because women are
different from men and this difference needs to be celebrated.
The manner in which Anupamaa resolves problems is very feminine.
Though she’s a woman in power she’s willing to share
this power with others.
Is Himesh’s Anupamaa in any way like Hrishikesh Mukherjee’s
Anupama?
No, and the difference isn’t only in the fact that Himesh’s
Anupamaa is spelt with a double ‘A’. The title was
actually chosen by me keeping in mind Himesh’s fanatism
about everything he does beginning with an ‘A’.
We were looking for a title that conveyed not just a name
but a quality too and Anupamaa seemed apt because it means
bemisaal...jiska koi upma nahin. Also Shyam Benegal has ingrained
in me the conviction that a slight nasal resonance in the
title is good and Anuamaa has that too.
Can you identify with this woman given the fact that she seems
so different from you?
True Anupamaa is not me, I’m more urban, but I respect
people like her who are confident, assertive and yet do not
have to demonstrate these qualities with every sentence they
utter.
But isn’t she too straight, too staid?
Well, there was the chance of her becoming slightly boring
but I’m trying hard to prevent that by not sticking to
the conventional idea of how such a woman would talk and behave.
When we were shooting the first episode there was a scene
where I had to warn my children not to return late from the
social. “And don’t smoke and drink because it is
the cool thing,” I tell them. The “cool” was
a spontaneous addition and I could see that the youngsters
playing my kids were surprised but warmed up to me instantly.
With that one word mujhe sur mil gaya. I realised that Anupamaa
did not have to be a cardboard stereotype of a “good”
woman. She could be a person with wit, intelligence and humour
too.
Does Anupamaa trigger off a memory of any character you have
played?
She’s not like any character I have played, but someone
was telling me that she is a little like the Meena Kumari
of Aarti. A more contemporary Aarti.
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| What’s
attractive about Anupamaa is the feminine gaze. In Hindi
cinema, the gaze has been predominantly male and that
has to change |
Was it easy adjusting to the little black box?
Well, television does have a lot of constraints. One is forced
to abandon the attention to detail that one is used to because,
as was pointed out to me, not everyone is watching every episode
and within every episode there are certain expectations being
built. I’m also aware that TRP ratings will decide which
way the serial will go. I have worked in theatre where one
has all the time in the world to explore a character. In cinema
there is less time and in television there is no time at all.
If one were to do only television it would be a numbing experience
but when you balance it with other disciplines it’s okay.
You are seen as a champion of women’s rights and this
constant pressure of living up to everyone’s ideal everytime
you give the nod to a project must be taxing. Don’t you
have to turn down several challenging roles because the character
isn’t something people would expect Shabana Azmi to play?
The pressure is tremendous and yes, it restricts my choice
of roles. It was a big struggle to do Godmother even though
it was a wonderful role full of complexities and very rewarding
for an actress. I was aware that to all those women who have
been struggling for years to build up the credibility of women
politicians, such a role would be seen like two steps back.
But Vinay Shukla was very clear that his film was not about
an individual but about how the community is used for political
gain and when you see the film from that keyhole the truth
of the character is clear.
These days one doesn’t see much of you on screen. Have
the pressures of living up to an ideal finally got to you?
I’m doing less work because today there is no need for
me to do anything unless I really want to do it. Earlier,
one was propelling one’s career forward and one did a
film for the banner or the hero. Today not even the length
of the role is a consideration. I do something if it catches
my fancy. I’m doing two international projects and a
Hindi film. There’s also Ramesh Talwar’s play with
Farooque Sheikh. I’m not averse to doing anything as
long as it’s not at cross purposes with my values and
I can make time for it.
Well, today after Anupamaa producers must be queueing up outside
your doors?
Oh my God yes. And they all insist on knowing why I said “yes”
to Himesh and not them (Laughs).
Why didn’t you accept a much-hyped game show like Sawaal
Dus Crore or chaired a talk show like so many of your contemporaries?
I wasn’t convinced about Swaal Dus Crore even though
everybody around me advised me to do it. Gajendra Singh and
I shared a good working relationship. I think his Antakshri
is the only original idea on TV today. I really can’t
pin down any one reason for refusing the show except pure
instinct.
As for talk shows, I find that there are only so many celebrities
who agree to come on them so when you switch channels you
find the same people on all the talk shows. I may be doing
a talk show now but the format will be different.
Would you enjoy the challenge of playing a woman politician
on TV?
There have been many such offers both from film and TV producers
but somehow the idea doesn’t grab me because what was
offered tends to tread the familiar path with Aandhi as the
role model. However, I am enjoying playing a real life politician.
Even before I got into Parliament I was involved with non-government
organizations and becoming an MP gave me the chance to be
in the place where policies are discussed and formatted. I
could mobilize support for my causes. Being a member of the
Rajya Sabha is a rewarding experience.
Yet, despite your political clout you couldn’t save
Water?
I think I made a mistake there. Since I was personally
involved I restrained myself from speaking to the Prime Minister
or the Home Minister. I should have picked up the phone and
said, “This is happening, stop it!” Instead, I took
a back seat. Today the fact that Water is never going to be
made is a devastating blow not just because I lost a good
role but because the incident signals that our right to freedom
of expression is being throttled. The film was stopped on
completely fictitious charges. There was a disinformation
campaign launched against it and selected excerpts of the
script circulated to prove that it was against Hindu culture.
The impression was that the whole of Beneras was up in arms
against Water but the fact is that there several women’s
organizations, students organisations and cultural organizations
wanted the film to be made. If it was against Hindu culture
how did a Hindu government pass the film not once but twice?
If you were offered a portfolio in the ministry what would
be your choice? Social justice?
I’d want rural development. I think India’s problems
can never be resolved unless women related rural issues that
are completely neglected even though women constitute 50 per
cent of our society, are addressed. I have done Hari Bhari,
a film by Shyam Benegal, which for the first time raises the
issue of a woman’s reproductive health which is a very
important issue. The number of women we lose to pregnancy
related problems in a week is equivalent to the number of
deaths in Europe in a year. And 70 per cent of the deaths,
I’m told, are preventable. The number of women we’re
losing in a year can be equated to 300 plane crashes. Now
if that many accidents were to happen heads would roll and
governments would fall. But since it is just women in the
interiors dying no one is talking about it.
How is it balancing two worlds, two homes?
Completely neurotic. For five days I’m in Delhi. I come
down to Mumbai for the weekends to shoot. The 9-to-9 schedules
are gruelling and also have to make time for my parents, husband
and friends. It’s driving me schizophrenic but as my
husband says we could go anywhere in the world and within
minutes activists would be crawling out of the woodwork and
whisking me away. He says I’m mad and I invite chaos.
That’s exactly what my mother says about my father. Despite
his frail health his life is still very frenetic. (Smiles)
I guess, it runs in the genes.
Roshmila Bhattacharya>>>
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